[Assam] Fwd: [asom] Re: Press Release on 'Fast unto Death'

Ram Sarangapani assamrs at gmail.com
Thu May 10 10:01:41 PDT 2007


C'da.

*** That is not how I read the posts in 'asom' or your support therefor. Did
I read them incorrectly? The righteously outraged in 'asom' and assamnet
demanding explanations from 'assamwatch' for their purported siding only
with ULFA and ULFA sympathizers and not for  purported ULFA  victims was the
issue that started this string of posts, didn't it?

You may have misinterpreted what they meant. All most people would want to
know if these HR orgs.
are 'fair & balanced' when they they show their selective outrages.

What I meant was that they don't owe me or other individuals an
'explanation' of any sort. But, one would think, that they do a huge
explanation to Assam and her people in general - don't you think? Or, do you
think, they don't even owe that?

 >Well, this type of selective  outrage doesn't seem to fly vey well with
the >GOI.


>>*** That is a revelation . I wonder why.

I brought up GOI - because that is where these HR groups and sympathizers
will ultimately have to go to have their complaints redressed. There is no
other option, or is there?

>If I might, I would also add the righteous and the unbiased of 'assamnet'
and 'asom' to the list too.

Really! I have yet to come across Assamnet shutting anyone out.

>Geneva Convention and treat prisoners of war with certain dignity and
humanity

Is India at war with another country at the moment? And does it have POWs?
That would be news.
>From the likes of it, it seems India treats ulfa, at best, as insurgents,
and at worst, as terrorists. And I do not think the Geneva Convention
considers such types as POWs.

I know, many would like their cause to be shown as 'the cause' and showcase
that as the 'Great War' with all the trappings of
POWs, Geneva Conventions etc. In all probability, to no doubt, elevate the
stature of local low-level conflicts to something more "global' - that the
whole world is paying attention.

The fact is the Chechens want that, the Ulfa wants it, and so does the Al
Queda.  All of them in wanted lists in the US. Well, they got the Global
Attention!
Issues like "POW status" are usually reserved for countries at war and that
too observe certain rules of engaement.
They don't go on extortion or killing rounds, nor make hostages of women and
children (Chechnya) and kill them (Chehnya and Dhemaji).

 *>Still is it unreasonable to expect an account of what India did to the
ULFA husbands *
*>of these women? That is the issue here.*
**
No, it certainly is not.  But, to be fair, shouldn't the ULFA also account
for the missing and account for the killing they perpetrated on innocent
common folks?
Now, you don't want to give one party a pass just because some people think
"Indians also claim a superior civilizational heritage"?
Or does THAT not matter at all?

>If you get a chance, watch  the Colbert Report in Comedy Central

Oh! I watch old Steven every chance I get - and I agree with you.

>BTW there are more apologies and 'mistakes were made' mea-culpas in today's
paper too

I know, there are way too many mea-culpas and that too only from one side.
The GOI should let the ulfa get out some mea-culpas too. And we all wait
with bated breadth. :)

--Ram






On 5/10/07, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  Ram:
>
>
> Here is a delayed response to your litany of complaints:
>
>
> >They can be as SELECTIVE as they wish - and they don't have to give me or
> >anyone else any reason.
>
>
> *** That is not how I read the posts in 'asom' or your support therefor.
> Did I read them incorrectly? The righteously outraged in 'asom' and assamnet
> demanding explanations from 'assamwatch' for their purported siding only
> with ULFA and ULFA sympathizers and not for  purported ULFA  victims was the
> issue that started this string of posts, didn't it?
>
>
>
>
> >Well, this type of selective  outrage doesn't seem to fly vey well with
> the >GOI.
>
>
> *** That is a revelation . I wonder why.
> If I might, I would also add the righteous and the unbiased of 'assamnet'
> and 'asom' to the list too. Wouldn't you :-)?
>
>
>
>
> >There is another angle to all this is, I don't know what "DUTIES" the GOI
> owes >specially to those who have denounced their Indian citizenship, and
> those who >have expressed in no uncertain terms that they will harm India,
> its assets and >anything in between, whenever they can.
>
>
> *** You are right on that count. But GoI, its apologists and Indians also
> claim a superior civilizational heritage, which, one might venture to guess,
> would transcend geographical boundaries or nationality labels. Like those
> 'civilized' nations that subscribe to the Geneva Convention and treat
> prisoners of war with certain dignity and humanity, even though they are
> enemies. After all 'enemies' too put their lives in the line of fire with a
> CAUSE that THEY hold dear. I know
> the GOOD FOLKS are the ones that are RIGHT in these conflicts; like the
> USA or India while those who do not agree are WRONG.
>
>
> *Still is it unreasonable to expect an account of what India did to the
> ULFA husbands of these women? That is the issue here.*
>
>
> And should the righteous of 'asom' or 'assamnet' oppose giving out such
> information or support GoI's withholding it, because 'assamwatch' or other
> such despicable and biased HR orgs did not take up the cause of the victims
> of ULFA actions ?
>
>
> I will be very interested in hearing that as I am sure others who sport
> that mantle of holiness like you all do. It will make very interesting
> reading :-).
>
>
> If you get a chance, watch  the Colbert Report in Comedy Central. He
> explores and exposes these truths in vivid color :-).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >Perhaps, the only duty the GOI may have for such people is HR. In today's
> papers, I read the army has apologized for mistreating villages (while
> pursuing ulfa - I think in Arunachal).
>
>
>
>
> *** I am so relieved to hear that :-). BTW there are more apologies and
> 'mistakes were made' mea-culpas in today's paper too, that would make your
> Indianness proud.  And if I were a betting man, there will continue to be
> many more of those. What is a better way to wash one's dirty hands off after
> rubbing some unfortunate's life out than to say 'OOOPS! That was a mistake.
> We are so sorry!'
>
>
>
>
> c-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 10:57 AM -0600 5/8/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
> C'da
>
>
>
> >*** I can't give you that answer, since I don't speak for assamwatch.
> Perhaps you will ask them.
>
>
>
> perhaps.
>
>
>
> >*** What do you think ? Were they? And if they were / are, WHO ought to
> be looking out for their >welfare? Should it be 'legitimate' authorities or
> 'biased' HR orgs.?
>
>
>
> We are assuming that the GOI is NOT doing its job of cleaning up its own
> mess, the mess left by ulfa, and the mess left by anyone one else.
>
>
>
> Then come these various HR orgs. Is it "their" duty to bring up these
> matters of selective outrage.
>
> No, certainly not. They can be as SELECTIVE as they wish - and they don't
> have to give me or anyone else any reason. including the GOI.
>
> Well, this type of selective  outrage doesn't seem to fly vey well with
> the GOI. After all, the "appeals" in all righteousness are in the end made
> to the GOI.
>
>
>
> There is another angle to all this is, I don't know what "DUTIES" the GOI
> owes specially to those who have denounced their Indian citizenship, and
> those who have expressed in no uncertain terms that they will harm India,
> its assets and anything in between, whenever they can.
>
>
>
> That perhaps is ONE single reason why the GOI is so hesitant to release
> those ulfa cadres it has caught. GOI releases, they skip town, to kill
> another day. Now, we all know how 'dumb' the GOI is, but lests not take that
> too far.
>
>
>
> Perhaps, the only duty the GOI may have for such people is HR. In today's
> papers, I read the army has apologized for mistreating villages (while
> pursuing ulfa - I think in Arunachal).
>
>
>
> My point is for someone to ask for 'fairplay' in HR matters, there must be
> some kind of HISTORICAL record of HR orgs that they are touting for, that
> tells the world - LOOK, we play fair, and we are what we say we are - an HR
> org.
>
>
>
> >*** The conundrum you manufacture here is a false one Ram. It is NOT a
> conundrum at all.  It is merely >an attempt to hide behind circular logic,
> when confronted by the superficiality of the outrage expressed >in the
> original propositions.
>
>
>
> Possibly - but wasn't it you who had brought up the plight of the ulfa
> wives on hunger strike and appealing to netters. As I recall, there were not
> any takers on this net (including me). Now, why was that?
>
> Because, C'da, the very next week, I think, you gave a wide-berth to the
> plight of the families who are demanding answers from the ULFA (organized by
> the Assam Public Works or something).
>
>
>
> My guess is netters were not hold their breath here.
>
>
>
> So, actually, this is the problem - there are these common folks (the ulfa
> wives, and those who kin were killed by the ulfa). Their plights are almost
> similar.
>
> And yet, battle lines are drawn - one group supported by the PCG, the
> PCPIA and others, while the other unfortunate group is supported by the APW.
>
> Even in your appeal, one of the demands along these lines "release of the
> 5 detained by the GOI and talks with the ULFA". Now, who put that in? While
> they may have been great points to bring up elsewhere, the poor ulfa wives
> got a raw deal there - their cause, IMHO, was dragged into unnecessary
> political gamesmanship, in which those ladies had no immediate stake.
>
>
>
> I really wonder, and really do, if there is such an organization in Assam
> or elsewhere who is just interested in uplifting in some small way the lives
> of so many affected by this continuous cycle of violence in Assam - without
> regard to who is winning and who is losing in the political chessgame
> between the ulfa and the GOI and keeping all pretenses aside?
>
>
>
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/8/07,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Ram:
>
>
>
>
> >That is very interesting and I wonder why.
>
>
>
>
> *** I can't give you that answer, since I don't speak for assamwatch.
> Perhaps you will ask them.
>
>
>
>
> >Just wondering if any Assamese families were ever affected because the
> ulfa allegedly killed their >husbands, children etc.
>
>
>
> *** What do you think ? Were they? And if they were / are, WHO ought to be
> looking out for their welfare? Should it be 'legitimate' authorities or
> 'biased' HR orgs.?
>
>
>
>
> Oh, I see! But ULFA should NOT have done anything that might have harmed
> some to begin with, right?
>
> I agree. Ram.  Unfortunately such conflicts do not arise out of nothing?
> What has CHANGED about the CAUSES that gave rise to ULFA? Have you asked
> that question?  Are you able to face the answer to such questions?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >But that couldn't be true, nobody really has any good proof that it was
> the ulfa who could have done >such things. A good guess would be those
> people killed themselves for some unknown reason.
>
>
>
> >Hence, in such a situation, it is impossible for any "rights group" or
> for that matter, futile, for anybody, >with any ounce of righteousness to
> stand up for them.
>
>
>
>
> >This, of course, does NOT hold true of the supporters and advocates of
> ulfa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *** The conundrum you manufacture here is a false one Ram. It is NOT a
> conundrum at all.  It is merely an attempt to hide behind circular logic,
> when confronted by the superficiality of the outrage expressed in the
> original propositions.
>
>
>
>
> But that does not eliminate the problem: The insurgency and its toll on
> EVERYBODY. What is therefore the answer? I would submit it is a POLITICAL
> settlement that would end the conflict .
>
>
>
>
> If we contribute something to bring that about we would be a part of the
> solution. And that would not come from waving those banners of
> self-righteousness dyed with conveniently affected outrage and demonizing HR
> orgs. Raising our voices to achieve a just and honorable political solution
> the conflict will.
>
>
>
>
> c-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 8:50 AM -0600 5/8/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
> C'da,
>
>
>
> Just realized just after I sent the mail. Sorry about that.
>
>
>
> Your post on the subject, of course, as usual raises valid points.
>
>
>
> "It might be a matter interested to you to know that our widely circulated
> and Assam media reported Press Release to help the victims (within our
> limits) of the Dhemaji Explosion did not produce any results" - Assam Watch
>
>
>
> That is very interesting and I wonder why.
>
>
>
> Just wondering if any Assamese families were ever affected because the
> ulfa allegedly killed their husbands, children etc. But that couldn't be
> true, nobody really has any good proof that it was the ulfa who could have
> done such things. A good guess would be those people killed themselves for
> some unknown reason.
>
>
>
> Hence, in such a situation, it is impossible for any "rights group" or for
> that matter, futile, for anybody, with any ounce of righteousness to stand
> up for them.
>
>
>
> >the propensity of some of our peers whose piety and righteous outrages
> are >usually set aside ONLY for those with whom they have empathy for, be it
> >for social, be it for political, be it for linguistic, be it for religious
> or be it even >for moral grounds.
>
>
>
> This, of course, does NOT hold true of the supporters and advocates of
> ulfa.
>
>
>
> --Ram
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 5/8/07,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Ram,
>
>
>
>
> I am fine with assamnet which goes thru assam.org. I am not allowed to
> post in ASOM however, even though I get to see 'asom' list posts, time to
> time. For some reason they come to my mailbox, even though I never
> subscribed to it.
>
>
>
>
> c-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> At 8:18 AM -0600 5/8/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
> >I do not have privileges to post in the ASOM list, even though, by some
> quirk >of the internet's  reach, I do get to see its posts, sometimes. So I
> request >Wahid Kokaideu to forward  this response, if he would, to that list
> as well.
>
>
>
>
> This post seems to come thru fine, C'da. I even checked assam.org - seems
> fine.
>
> Of course. it could be that you are high up in the Ozarks, and nothing can
> reach you :):)
>
>
>
> --Ram
>
>
> On 5/8/07,* Chan Mahanta* <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
> Wahid Kokaideu raises a valid question, as do the others of the ASOM
> list.  It demonstrates the generosity and registers the fair-minded outlooks
> of all those who look out for the welfare of ALL, regardless of the labels
> or the stigmata SOME might be associated with, whether they are self
> acquired or assigned by others or gained from accidents of history.
>
>
>
>
> Or so it might seem.
>
>
>
>
> Why I add the above qualifier is for a very simple reason: Over the
> decades I have witnessed, just like all others too who  are either willing
> or able, the propensity of some of our peers whose piety and righteous
> outrages are usually set aside ONLY for those with whom they have empathy
> for, be it for social, be it for political, be it for linguistic, be it for
> religious or be it even for moral grounds.
>
>
>
>
> But we also know it is not unique to our peers. It happens to be an
> universal response.
>
>
>
>
> So why do I even bother to raise the issue? What makes it special?
>
>
>
>
> For two reasons.
>
>
>
>
>         A: The mantle of superior morality worn by our learned peers who
> are outraged by
>
>         the despicable human-rights organizations who take up causes ONLY
> of people with the
>
>         stigma I described above and not ALL, regardless of their sins,
> real or perceived, as they
>
>         - the fair minded citizenry - would  undoubtedly do.
>
>
>
>
>         B:  The intellectual acumen of the outraged who speculated in the
> ASOM mailing list as
>
>         to WHY these fasting wives had to go marry them ULFA cadres about
> whose fate the
>
>
>         Indian government remains  silent, in spite of ONE its own High
> Court's orders to reveal
>
>         it to these wives.
>
>
>
>
> If we take a moment to take a deeper look at the above two points it will
> be eminently clear that:
>
>
>
>
> In A above, the mantle of superior morality derived from an universal
> goodwill for the welfare of ALL is, at best, a mythical one. It is a
> conveniently donned cloak. For they WERE / ARE NOWHERE to be found
>
> when THOSE WHOSE acts of commission and omission gave rise to the
> insurgency in Assam and ULFA amongst one of the sub-continent's most docile
> and passive ethnic community, the Oxomiyas.
>
>
>
>
> In B above we see an abject  ignorance of one of civilized societies' most
> fundamental tenets: They do not hold the spouses or the children of
> individuals charged or adjudged  guilty of a crime similarly guilty, just
> like they do not hold an entire race or religion or country guilty of the
> transgressions  or crimes of a few; like they do for example in India.
> Remember the Sikh pogrom after Indira Gandhi's killing? Remember the  Godhra
> aftermath?
>
>
>
>
> Finally, those  whose outrages are NOT convenient or politically expedient
> , ought to ask FIRST:  Why do HR activists needed at all? Is it NOT because
> of a FAILURE of those who are entrusted with protecting the rights of the
> ALL of the citizenry and for upholding the rule of law to begin with? If the
>
> 'legitimate' govts. did their job, WOULD these despicable, BIASED and
> SELF-SERVING HUMAN RIGHTS  organization be even needed?
>
>
>
>
> I do not have privileges to post in the ASOM list, even though, by some
> quirk of the internet's  reach, I do get to see its posts, sometimes. So I
> request Wahid Kokaideu to forward  this response, if he would, to that list
> as well.
>
>
>
>
> cm
>
>
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>
>
> At 3:16 AM -0400 5/8/07, assamwatch at aol.com wrote:
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: assamwatch at aol.com
> To: assamonline at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 6.21PM
> Subject: Re: [asom] Re: Press Release on 'Fast unto Death'
>
> Dear Mr Wahid Saleh,
>
>
>
> We are very grateful to receive a copy of your posting in response to our
> Press Release AW/001/2007 Dated 29.04.2007.
>
>
>
>
> AssamWatch(UK) would encourage you to submit us cases of Human Rights
> violations in the internationally recognised format occurring in Assam with
>  permission to AssamWatch(UK) from the victim/victims to enable us to work
> on those cases.
>
>
>
> It might be a matter interested to you to know that our widely circulated
> and Assam media reported Press Release to help the victims (within our
> limits) of the Dhemaji Explosion did not produce any results.
>
>
>
> Regards.
>
>
>
> Press section.
>
>
>
> AssamWatch(UK)
>
>
>
> 4 May 2007
>
>
>
> AssamWatch is a voluntary non-profit making Human Rights organisation
> based in the United kingdom.
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: wahid.saleh at gmail.com
> To: assamonline at yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Thu, 3 May 2007 10.30AM
> Subject: [asom] Re: Press Release on 'Fast unto Death'
>
> I understand that AssamWatch (UK) is a Human rights organization.
> >From the press release by Dr Hazarika, as he mentioned about the six
> wives of the ULFA cadres, it seems he is only concerned about the
> wellbeing of ULFA and ULFA relatives.
>
> My question to Dr Hazarika:
>
> What about the families that had to part with their near
> and dear ones due to the ULFA's brutality?
>
> Many of those kidnapped by the ULFA remain traceless, (for
> your information Dr Hazarika please see the post:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/3100 )
>
> Are these families not 'human' enough so that their 'rights' could
> be taken up by Human rights organization like AssamWatch (UK)?
>
> Regards,
> Wahid Saleh
>
> --- assamwatch at ... wrote:
>
> PRESS RELESE
>
> AW/001/2007
>
> Dated 29 April 2007
>
> AssamWatch(UK) has noted with some relief that upon receiving firm
> written commitment from the Chief Minister of Assam, the six wives of
>
> the missing cadres of the United Liberation Front of Asom in Bhutan in
> December 2003 has ended their 'FAST UNTO DEATH' action on 26 April
> 2007. Assam Watch(UK) would like to thank the Government of Assam for
> intervening in time to save the lives of these determined ladies who
> has followed the footsteps of Mohan Das Karamchand Gandhi who went on
> repeated 'Fasting Protests' during the Indian independence struggle.
>
> We are very hopeful that the Assam Government will honour the
> written reassurances and commitments given to the ladies on doing the
> needful in tracing the where about of the missing persons pursuing all
> avenues and return them to their families as soon as possible.
>
> The ladies fasting from. 21 March 2007 have put their health in
> extreme jeopardy. Appropriate care need to be provided for overall
> well being of these ladies who have put their bodies through extreme
> starvation on a background of a anxiety over their beloved ones for
> over the last Two and a Half year and it is expected that the
> appropriate authorities have already taken this into consideration and
> continue the care needed for them without any prejudice.
>
> Dr. M. Hazarika
> Co-ordinator
> AssamWatch(UK)
>
> __._,_.___
>
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