[Assam] Fwd: [asom] Re: Press Release on 'Fast unto Death'

Chan Mahanta cmahanta at charter.net
Thu May 10 11:22:06 PDT 2007


That would be like the acronym for Probaxi Oxomiyas Conditionally 
Opposed to Reforms ( POCOR), wouldn't it?







At 11:02 AM -0700 5/10/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
>Pardon my levity here..............
>
>I was told that MASS stands for Manab Adhikar Sangram Samiti. I'd 
>like to propose a change in their name to ULFAr Adhikar Sangram 
>Samiti. The acronym would be
>ULFAr ASS.
>============================================================
>
>Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  > All most people would want to know if these HR orgs.
>  >are 'fair & balanced' when they they show their selective outrages.
>
>*** I know Ram, I do. ALL they want from them despicable HR Orgs. is 
>'fairness and balance' like their government, their press, their TV 
>stations, and their very own selves!
>
>Who are you kidding Ram ?
>
>
>  > But, one would think, that they do a huge explanation to Assam 
>and her people >in general - don't you think?
>
>Yeah? Like the governments past and present whose acts of commission 
>and omission created ULFA perhaps?
>
>But I haven't ever seen any righteous outrage on that account from 
>our vocal intelligentsia. Any idea why Ram?
>
>
>>  >Is India at war with another country at the moment? And does it 
>>have POWs? That would be news.
>>
>  >From the likes of it, it seems India treats ulfa, at best, as 
>insurgents, and >at worst, as terrorists. And I do not think the 
>Geneva Convention considers >such types as POWs.
>
>
>*** Dick Cheney will be proud of you.
>
>But let us not forget for one moment, that the USA too was born with 
>the help of the same kind of 'non-warfare' that you or Dick Cheney 
>or GWB would not give any Geneva Convention recognition for.
>
>And let us not insult anyone's intelligence here by EQUATING 
>AlQaeda with Chechnyans' struggle for independence or ULFAs'.
>
>
>  >No, it certainly is not.  But, to be fair, shouldn't the ULFA also 
>account for >the missing and account for the killing they 
>perpetrated on innocent common >folks?
>
>*** YES. They should. But let us not try to equate the insurgents 
>hiding in jungles or taking shelter in contiguous countries, without 
>the institutions or resources of the Indian state, either to keep 
>tab or hold control over their prisoners or victims and WITHHOLDING 
>that information from their families. There is a difference here you 
>know?
>
>  >Oh! I watch old Steven every chance I get - and I agree with you.
>
>*** I sure am glad to hear that Ram. But still you invoke the Dick 
>Cheneyesque argument about why ULFA families should not be given 
>info. on the whereabouts of   those that India either killed or are 
>holding prisoners.
>
>What gives?
>
>c-da
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>At 11:01 AM -0600 5/10/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>C'da.
>>
>
>
>*** That is not how I read the posts in 'asom' or your support 
>therefor. Did I read them incorrectly? The righteously outraged in 
>'asom' and assamnet demanding explanations from 'assamwatch' for 
>their purported siding only with ULFA and ULFA sympathizers and not 
>for  purported ULFA  victims was the issue that started this string 
>of posts, didn't it?
>
>
>
>You may have misinterpreted what they meant. All most people would 
>want to know if these HR orgs.
>
>are 'fair & balanced' when they they show their selective outrages.
>
>
>
>What I meant was that they don't owe me or other individuals an 
>'explanation' of any sort. But, one would think, that they do a huge 
>explanation to Assam and her people in general - don't you think? 
>Or, do you think, they don't even owe that?
>
>
>
>  >Well, this type of selective  outrage doesn't seem to fly vey well 
>with the >GOI.
>
>
>
>
>  >>*** That is a revelation . I wonder why.
>
>
>
>I brought up GOI - because that is where these HR groups and 
>sympathizers will ultimately have to go to have their complaints 
>redressed. There is no other option, or is there?
>
>
>
>  >If I might, I would also add the righteous and the unbiased of 
>'assamnet' and 'asom' to the list too.
>
>
>
>Really! I have yet to come across Assamnet shutting anyone out.
>
>
>
>  >Geneva Convention and treat prisoners of war with certain dignity 
>and humanity
>
>
>
>Is India at war with another country at the moment? And does it have 
>POWs? That would be news.
>
>From the likes of it, it seems India treats ulfa, at best, as 
>insurgents, and at worst, as terrorists. And I do not think the 
>Geneva Convention considers such types as POWs.
>
>
>
>I know, many would like their cause to be shown as 'the cause' and 
>showcase that as the 'Great War' with all the trappings of
>
>POWs, Geneva Conventions etc. In all probability, to no doubt, 
>elevate the stature of local low-level conflicts to something more 
>"global' - that the whole world is paying attention.
>
>
>
>The fact is the Chechens want that, the Ulfa wants it, and so does 
>the Al Queda.  All of them in wanted lists in the US. Well, they got 
>the Global Attention!
>
>Issues like "POW status" are usually reserved for countries at war 
>and that too observe certain rules of engaement.
>
>They don't go on extortion or killing rounds, nor make hostages of 
>women and children (Chechnya) and kill them (Chehnya and Dhemaji).
>
>
>
>  >Still is it unreasonable to expect an account of what India did to 
>the ULFA husbands
>
>  >of these women? That is the issue here.
>
>
>
>No, it certainly is not.  But, to be fair, shouldn't the ULFA also 
>account for the missing and account for the killing they perpetrated 
>on innocent common folks?
>
>Now, you don't want to give one party a pass just because some 
>people think "Indians also claim a superior civilizational heritage"?
>
>Or does THAT not matter at all?
>
>
>
>  >If you get a chance, watch  the Colbert Report in Comedy Central
>
>
>
>Oh! I watch old Steven every chance I get - and I agree with you.
>
>
>
>  >BTW there are more apologies and 'mistakes were made' mea-culpas 
>in today's paper too
>
>
>
>I know, there are way too many mea-culpas and that too only from one 
>side. The GOI should let the ulfa get out some mea-culpas too. And 
>we all wait with bated breadth. :)
>
>
>
>--Ram
>
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>On 5/10/07, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Ram:
>
>
>
>
>Here is a delayed response to your litany of complaints:
>
>
>
>
>  >They can be as SELECTIVE as they wish - and they don't have to 
>give me or >anyone else any reason.
>
>
>
>
>*** That is not how I read the posts in 'asom' or your support 
>therefor. Did I read them incorrectly? The righteously outraged in 
>'asom' and assamnet demanding explanations from 'assamwatch' for 
>their purported siding only with ULFA and ULFA sympathizers and not 
>for  purported ULFA  victims was the issue that started this string 
>of posts, didn't it?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  >Well, this type of selective  outrage doesn't seem to fly vey well 
>with the >GOI.
>
>
>
>
>*** That is a revelation . I wonder why.
>
>If I might, I would also add the righteous and the unbiased of 
>'assamnet' and 'asom' to the list too. Wouldn't you :-)?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  >There is another angle to all this is, I don't know what "DUTIES" 
>the GOI owes >specially to those who have denounced their Indian 
>citizenship, and those who >have expressed in no uncertain terms 
>that they will harm India, its assets and >anything in between, 
>whenever they can.
>
>
>
>
>*** You are right on that count. But GoI, its apologists and Indians 
>also claim a superior civilizational heritage, which, one might 
>venture to guess, would transcend geographical boundaries or 
>nationality labels. Like those 'civilized' nations that subscribe to 
>the Geneva Convention and treat prisoners of war with certain 
>dignity and humanity, even though they are enemies. After all 
>'enemies' too put their lives in the line of fire with a CAUSE that 
>THEY hold dear. I know
>
>the GOOD FOLKS are the ones that are RIGHT in these conflicts; like 
>the USA or India while those who do not agree are WRONG.
>
>
>
>
>Still is it unreasonable to expect an account of what India did to 
>the ULFA husbands of these women? That is the issue here.
>
>
>
>
>And should the righteous of 'asom' or 'assamnet' oppose giving out 
>such information or support GoI's withholding it, because 
>'assamwatch' or other such despicable and biased HR orgs did not 
>take up the cause of the victims of ULFA actions ?
>
>
>
>
>I will be very interested in hearing that as I am sure others who 
>sport that mantle of holiness like you all do. It will make very 
>interesting reading :-).
>
>
>
>
>If you get a chance, watch  the Colbert Report in Comedy Central. He 
>explores and exposes these truths in vivid color :-).
>
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>>  >Perhaps, the only duty the GOI may have for such people is HR. In 
>>today's papers, I read the army has apologized for mistreating 
>>villages (while pursuing ulfa - I think in Arunachal).
>>
>
>
>
>
>
>*** I am so relieved to hear that :-). BTW there are more apologies 
>and 'mistakes were made' mea-culpas in today's paper too, that would 
>make your Indianness proud.  And if I were a betting man, there will 
>continue to be many more of those. What is a better way to wash 
>one's dirty hands off after rubbing some unfortunate's life out than 
>to say 'OOOPS! That was a mistake. We are so sorry!'
>
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>c-da
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>At 10:57 AM -0600 5/8/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>C'da
>>
>
>
>
>  >*** I can't give you that answer, since I don't speak for 
>assamwatch. Perhaps you will ask them.
>
>
>
>
>perhaps.
>
>
>
>
>  >*** What do you think ? Were they? And if they were / are, WHO 
>ought to be looking out for their >welfare? Should it be 
>'legitimate' authorities or 'biased' HR orgs.?
>
>
>
>
>We are assuming that the GOI is NOT doing its job of cleaning up its 
>own mess, the mess left by ulfa, and the mess left by anyone one 
>else.
>
>
>
>
>Then come these various HR orgs. Is it "their" duty to bring up 
>these matters of selective outrage. 
>
>No, certainly not. They can be as SELECTIVE as they wish - and they 
>don't have to give me or anyone else any reason. including the GOI.
>
>Well, this type of selective  outrage doesn't seem to fly vey well 
>with the GOI. After all, the "appeals" in all righteousness are in 
>the end made to the GOI.
>
>
>
>
>There is another angle to all this is, I don't know what "DUTIES" 
>the GOI owes specially to those who have denounced their Indian 
>citizenship, and those who have expressed in no uncertain terms that 
>they will harm India, its assets and anything in between, whenever 
>they can.
>
>
>
>
>That perhaps is ONE single reason why the GOI is so hesitant to 
>release those ulfa cadres it has caught. GOI releases, they skip 
>town, to kill another day. Now, we all know how 'dumb' the GOI is, 
>but lests not take that too far.
>
>
>
>
>Perhaps, the only duty the GOI may have for such people is HR. In 
>today's papers, I read the army has apologized for mistreating 
>villages (while pursuing ulfa - I think in Arunachal).
>
>
>
>
>My point is for someone to ask for 'fairplay' in HR matters, there 
>must be some kind of HISTORICAL record of HR orgs that they are 
>touting for, that tells the world - LOOK, we play fair, and we are 
>what we say we are - an HR org.
>
>
>
>
>  >*** The conundrum you manufacture here is a false one Ram. It is 
>NOT a conundrum at all.  It is merely >an attempt to hide behind 
>circular logic, when confronted by the superficiality of the outrage 
>expressed >in the original propositions.
>
>
>
>
>Possibly - but wasn't it you who had brought up the plight of the 
>ulfa wives on hunger strike and appealing to netters. As I recall, 
>there were not any takers on this net (including me). Now, why was 
>that?
>
>Because, C'da, the very next week, I think, you gave a wide-berth to 
>the plight of the families who are demanding answers from the ULFA 
>(organized by the Assam Public Works or something).
>
>
>
>
>My guess is netters were not hold their breath here.
>
>
>
>
>So, actually, this is the problem - there are these common folks 
>(the ulfa wives, and those who kin were killed by the ulfa). Their 
>plights are almost similar.
>
>And yet, battle lines are drawn - one group supported by the PCG, 
>the PCPIA and others, while the other unfortunate group is supported 
>by the APW.
>
>Even in your appeal, one of the demands along these lines "release 
>of the 5 detained by the GOI and talks with the ULFA". Now, who put 
>that in? While they may have been great points to bring up 
>elsewhere, the poor ulfa wives got a raw deal there - their cause, 
>IMHO, was dragged into unnecessary political gamesmanship, in which 
>those ladies had no immediate stake.
>
>
>
>
>I really wonder, and really do, if there is such an organization in 
>Assam or elsewhere who is just interested in uplifting in some small 
>way the lives of so many affected by this continuous cycle of 
>violence in Assam - without regard to who is winning and who is 
>losing in the political chessgame between the ulfa and the GOI and 
>keeping all pretenses aside?
>
>
>
>
>--Ram
>
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>On 5/8/07, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Ram:
>
>
>
>
>  >That is very interesting and I wonder why.
>
>
>
>
>*** I can't give you that answer, since I don't speak for 
>assamwatch. Perhaps you will ask them.
>
>
>
>
>  >Just wondering if any Assamese families were ever affected because 
>the ulfa allegedly killed their >husbands, children etc.
>
>
>
>
>*** What do you think ? Were they? And if they were / are, WHO ought 
>to be looking out for their welfare? Should it be 'legitimate' 
>authorities or 'biased' HR orgs.?
>
>
>
>
>
>Oh, I see! But ULFA should NOT have done anything that might have 
>harmed some to begin with, right?
>
>I agree. Ram.  Unfortunately such conflicts do not arise out of 
>nothing?  What has CHANGED about the CAUSES that gave rise to ULFA? 
>Have you asked that question?  Are you able to face the answer to 
>such questions?
>
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>>  >But that couldn't be true, nobody really has any good proof that 
>>it was the ulfa who could have done >such things. A good guess 
>>would be those people killed themselves for some unknown reason.
>>
>
>
>
>  >Hence, in such a situation, it is impossible for any "rights 
>group" or for that matter, futile, for anybody, >with any ounce of 
>righteousness to stand up for them.
>
>
>
>
>>  >This, of course, does NOT hold true of the supporters and 
>>advocates of ulfa.
>>
>
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>*** The conundrum you manufacture here is a false one Ram. It is NOT 
>a conundrum at all.  It is merely an attempt to hide behind circular 
>logic, when confronted by the superficiality of the outrage 
>expressed in the original propositions.
>
>
>
>
>But that does not eliminate the problem: The insurgency and its toll 
>on EVERYBODY. What is therefore the answer? I would submit it is a 
>POLITICAL settlement that would end the conflict .
>
>
>
>
>If we contribute something to bring that about we would be a part of 
>the solution. And that would not come from waving those banners of 
>self-righteousness dyed with conveniently affected outrage and 
>demonizing HR orgs. Raising our voices to achieve a just and 
>honorable political solution the conflict will.
>
>
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>c-da
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>At 8:50 AM -0600 5/8/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>C'da,
>>
>
>
>
>Just realized just after I sent the mail. Sorry about that.
>
>
>
>
>Your post on the subject, of course, as usual raises valid points.
>
>
>
>
>"It might be a matter interested to you to know that our widely 
>circulated and Assam media reported Press Release to help the 
>victims (within our limits) of the Dhemaji Explosion did not produce 
>any results" - Assam Watch
>
>
>
>
>That is very interesting and I wonder why.
>
>
>
>
>Just wondering if any Assamese families were ever affected because 
>the ulfa allegedly killed their husbands, children etc. But that 
>couldn't be true, nobody really has any good proof that it was the 
>ulfa who could have done such things. A good guess would be those 
>people killed themselves for some unknown reason.
>
>
>
>
>Hence, in such a situation, it is impossible for any "rights group" 
>or for that matter, futile, for anybody, with any ounce of 
>righteousness to stand up for them.
>
>
>
>
>  >the propensity of some of our peers whose piety and righteous 
>outrages are >usually set aside ONLY for those with whom they have 
>empathy for, be it >for social, be it for political, be it for 
>linguistic, be it for religious or be it even >for moral grounds.
>
>
>
>
>This, of course, does NOT hold true of the supporters and advocates of ulfa.
>
>
>
>
>--Ram
>
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>On 5/8/07, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Ram,
>
>
>
>
>I am fine with assamnet which goes thru 
><http://assam.org/>assam.org. I am not allowed to post in ASOM 
>however, even though I get to see 'asom' list posts, time to time. 
>For some reason they come to my mailbox, even though I never 
>subscribed to it.
>
>
>
>
>c-da
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>At 8:18 AM -0600 5/8/07, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>
>>  >I do not have privileges to post in the ASOM list, even though, 
>>by some quirk >of the internet's  reach, I do get to see its posts, 
>>sometimes. So I request >Wahid Kokaideu to forward  this response, 
>>if he would, to that list as well.
>>
>
>
>
>
>This post seems to come thru fine, C'da. I even checked 
><http://assam.org/>assam.org - seems fine.
>
>Of course. it could be that you are high up in the Ozarks, and 
>nothing can reach you :):)
>
>
>
>
>--Ram
>
>
>On 5/8/07, Chan Mahanta 
><<mailto:cmahanta at charter.net>cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Wahid Kokaideu raises a valid question, as do the others of the ASOM 
>list.  It demonstrates the generosity and registers the fair-minded 
>outlooks of all those who look out for the welfare of ALL, 
>regardless of the labels or the stigmata SOME might be associated 
>with, whether they are self acquired or assigned by others or gained 
>from accidents of history.
>
>
>
>
>
>Or so it might seem.
>
>
>
>
>Why I add the above qualifier is for a very simple reason: Over the 
>decades I have witnessed, just like all others too who  are either 
>willing or able, the propensity of some of our peers whose piety and 
>righteous outrages are usually set aside ONLY for those with whom 
>they have empathy for, be it for social, be it for political, be it 
>for linguistic, be it for religious or be it even for moral grounds.
>
>
>
>
>But we also know it is not unique to our peers. It happens to be an 
>universal response.
>
>
>
>
>So why do I even bother to raise the issue? What makes it special?
>
>
>
>
>For two reasons.
>
>
>
>
>         A: The mantle of superior morality worn by our learned peers 
>who are outraged by
>
>         the despicable human-rights organizations who take up causes 
>ONLY of people with the
>
>         stigma I described above and not ALL, regardless of their 
>sins, real or perceived, as they
>
>         - the fair minded citizenry - would  undoubtedly do.
>
>
>
>
>         B:  The intellectual acumen of the outraged who speculated 
>in the ASOM mailing list as
>
>         to WHY these fasting wives had to go marry them ULFA cadres 
>about whose fate the
>
>
>         Indian government remains  silent, in spite of ONE its own 
>High Court's orders to reveal
>
>         it to these wives.
>
>
>
>
>If we take a moment to take a deeper look at the above two points it 
>will be eminently clear that:
>
>
>
>
>In A above, the mantle of superior morality derived from an 
>universal goodwill for the welfare of ALL is, at best, a mythical 
>one. It is a conveniently donned cloak. For they WERE / ARE NOWHERE 
>to be found
>
>when THOSE WHOSE acts of commission and omission gave rise to the 
>insurgency in Assam and ULFA amongst one of the sub-continent's most 
>docile and passive ethnic community, the Oxomiyas.
>
>
>
>
>In B above we see an abject  ignorance of one of civilized 
>societies' most fundamental tenets: They do not hold the spouses or 
>the children of individuals charged or adjudged  guilty of a crime 
>similarly guilty, just like they do not hold an entire race or 
>religion or country guilty of the transgressions  or crimes of a 
>few; like they do for example in India. Remember the Sikh pogrom 
>after Indira Gandhi's killing? Remember the  Godhra aftermath?
>
>
>
>
>Finally, those  whose outrages are NOT convenient or politically 
>expedient , ought to ask FIRST:  Why do HR activists needed at all? 
>Is it NOT because of a FAILURE of those who are entrusted with 
>protecting the rights of the ALL of the citizenry and for upholding 
>the rule of law to begin with? If the
>
>'legitimate' govts. did their job, WOULD these despicable, BIASED 
>and SELF-SERVING HUMAN RIGHTS  organization be even needed?
>
>
>
>
>I do not have privileges to post in the ASOM list, even though, by 
>some quirk of the internet's  reach, I do get to see its posts, 
>sometimes. So I request Wahid Kokaideu to forward  this response, if 
>he would, to that list as well.
>
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>cm
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>At 3:16 AM -0400 5/8/07, <mailto:assamwatch at aol.com>assamwatch at aol.com wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: <mailto:assamwatch at aol.com>assamwatch at aol.com
>To: <mailto:assamonline at yahoogroups.com>assamonline at yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Fri, 4 May 2007 6.21PM
>Subject: Re: [asom] Re: Press Release on 'Fast unto Death'
>
>Dear Mr Wahid Saleh,
>
>
>
>
>We are very grateful to receive a copy of your posting in response 
>to our Press Release AW/001/2007 Dated 29.04.2007.
>
>
>
>
>
>AssamWatch(UK) would encourage you to submit us cases of Human 
>Rights violations in the internationally recognised format occurring 
>in Assam with  permission to AssamWatch(UK) from the victim/victims 
>to enable us to work on those cases.
>
>
>
>
>It might be a matter interested to you to know that our widely 
>circulated and Assam media reported Press Release to help the 
>victims (within our limits) of the Dhemaji Explosion did not produce 
>any results.
>
>
>
>
>Regards.
>
>
>
>
>Press section.
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>AssamWatch(UK)
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>4 May 2007
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>AssamWatch is a voluntary non-profit making Human Rights 
>organisation based in the United kingdom.
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>-----Original Message-----
>
>From: <mailto:wahid.saleh at gmail.com>wahid.saleh at gmail.com
>To: <mailto:assamonline at yahoogroups.com>assamonline at yahoogroups.com
>Sent: Thu, 3 May 2007 10.30AM
>Subject: [asom] Re: Press Release on 'Fast unto Death'
>
>I understand that AssamWatch (UK) is a Human rights organization.
>>From the press release by Dr Hazarika, as he mentioned about the six
>wives of the ULFA cadres, it seems he is only concerned about the
>wellbeing of ULFA and ULFA relatives.
>
>My question to Dr Hazarika:
>
>What about the families that had to part with their near
>and dear ones due to the ULFA's brutality?
>
>Many of those kidnapped by the ULFA remain traceless, (for
>your information Dr Hazarika please see the post:
><http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/3100>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/assamonline/message/3100 
>)
>
>Are these families not 'human' enough so that their 'rights' could
>be taken up by Human rights organization like AssamWatch (UK)?
>
>Regards,
>Wahid Saleh
>
>--- assamwatch at ... wrote:
>
>PRESS RELESE
>
>AW/001/2007
>
>Dated 29 April 2007
>
>AssamWatch(UK) has noted with some relief that upon receiving firm
>written commitment from the Chief Minister of Assam, the six wives of
>
>the missing cadres of the United Liberation Front of Asom in Bhutan in
>December 2003 has ended their 'FAST UNTO DEATH' action on 26 April
>2007. Assam Watch(UK) would like to thank the Government of Assam for
>intervening in time to save the lives of these determined ladies who
>has followed the footsteps of Mohan Das Karamchand Gandhi who went on
>repeated 'Fasting Protests' during the Indian independence struggle.
>
>We are very hopeful that the Assam Government will honour the
>written reassurances and commitments given to the ladies on doing the
>needful in tracing the where about of the missing persons pursuing all
>avenues and return them to their families as soon as possible.
>
>The ladies fasting from. 21 March 2007 have put their health in
>extreme jeopardy. Appropriate care need to be provided for overall
>well being of these ladies who have put their bodies through extreme
>starvation on a background of a anxiety over their beloved ones for
>over the last Two and a Half year and it is expected that the
>appropriate authorities have already taken this into consideration and
>continue the care needed for them without any prejudice.
>
>Dr. M. Hazarika
>Co-ordinator
>AssamWatch(UK)
>
>__._,_.___
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