[Assam] Fwd: Re: Q and A

Chan Mahanta cmahanta at charter.net
Fri May 18 07:29:40 PDT 2007


O'Deka:


At 6:14 AM -0700 5/18/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
>I doubt that one can judge the Intent from an email.


*** I will go along with that. No one can or pretend to.

	But how about a series of them over time 
setting a tell-tale pattern ? Would that be
	reasonable to draw inferences from ? I 
realize that may not be admissible evidence
	in a criminal case. But for a civil 
discourse, would that be unreasonable or 
unreliable?
	Can someone draw a reasonable conclusion 
from my posts that *I* just might have
	sympathies for ULFA's cause ? Or for that 
matter DD might not ? Or that it will be
  	preposterous to conclude that Ram would 
support an independent Assam, if only
	the people of Assam 'sincerely' struggled for its attainment :-)?


>How did you judge that I wanted to find fault or 
>alibi to reject when I wrote to ULFA?


*** I did not. And I would not. Because I do 
believe that people CAN and DO change their 
beliefs. That is why I suggested that there is no 
harm in trying to get that feedback from ULFA.

But on a matter of practicality, I would also say 
this: I too wrote to the VERY SAME ULFA publicity 
addresses years ago , one with the name of a 
Mahanta, and the other under the name of Ruby 
Bhuyan. If I remember correctly I did receive a 
very short, yes/no type of an answer on something 
I asked from the former, and none from the 
latter. I have to think that neither name is of a 
real person. And there is every possibility that 
those e-mail addresses are blocked from receiving 
mail., if for nothing else, for security reasons.

Call me paranoid, but I will have to think, that 
such e-mails ARE monitored by India. And I know 
for a fact that OUR discourses and debates in 
this forum are routinely monitored by INTERSTED 
parties , and trust me there is more than ONE 
party who ARE interested .



>I stand behind my statement that ULFA is clueless.

*** That is your gosh-given right and 
prerogative. Far be it for me than to question or 
dispute or otherwise infringe upon that right :-).


>So is everyone else who discusses ULFA issues, 
>mainly because ULFA is clueless.

*** Now THIS, however, is something else . Let me 
see if I can understand this verdict:

	I don't question your judgement in concluding that ULFA is CLUELESS

	But clueless about WHAT?  You are not suggesting they are CLUELESS
	about EVERYTHING?  Are you ?

If you are NOT suggesting that ULFA is clueless 
on everything under the sun, then how can your 
verdict above, that  "everyone else who discusses 
ULFA issues --- is clueless", hold any water?  
You can't be serious about  such a conclusion. It 
was obviously a slip of the keyboard.


What you must have been attempting to convey was 
that ULFA is clueless about some SPECIFIC MATTER. 
In this context that would be a plan for an 
independent Assam government.

If so, how can you conclude that my 
characterization of clueless-ness of the 
arguments made by JS and his admirers on what to 
do about the MOHAMARI that JS  opened his salvoes 
on them despicable sympathizers with, is also 
clueless , because ULFA might be clueless about 
governance?

What is the connection between the two? Or 
between it and the price of tea at Teok :-)? What 
is the train of logical examination here?



*** But, I will gladly accept your verdict on my 
own cluessness, on any subject that you might 
wish to assign :-) ( see, those things don't hurt 
me, and being clueless , I might actually wear 
them as trophies )  if that would make you feel 
better or take the sting out of my 
characterization of the arguments made by people 
on the specific subject of  the  call to "End 
this disease called ULFA"  .


O'm










>When I wrote the emails two years ago, it was a 
>sincere attempt to get information. When there 
>was total silence even after two attempts, it 
>was very clear that it was a lost cause.
>I stand behind my statement that ULFA is 
>clueless. So is everyone else who discusses ULFA 
>issues, mainly because ULFA is clueless. Haven't 
>you noticed how every related topic discussed 
>here turns into accusations of "clueless" and 
>"uninformed" without any semblance of a proper 
>discussion?
>Your attempts to justify ULFA's existence and 
>performance are meaningless because it is 
>doubtful that you ( like the rest of us) know 
>ULFA's master plan.
>Dilip
>===============================================================
>
>Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  >I am now convinced that it is the latter 
>because the vocal supporters with answers for 
>everything else >cannot answer these questions 
>either, nor do they know where to go for the 
>answers. Talk about >cluelessness.
>
>
>*** Two points to note:
>
>	A: Intent of the questions asked
>
>	If the intent was to learn, with the idea 
>of extending support, provided the answers
>	were satisfactory, that would be one 
>thing. But if the questions were asked with the
>	hope of  finding fault  or even alibis to 
>reject and to devalue, that would be another.
>
>	Few months ago, I spent a lot of time 
>articulating  almost exactly these issues, albeit
>	from MY perspective, in my words, with 
>the hope that the requests and challenges were
>	made with a sincerity of purpose, to 
>engage in a constructive dialogue to help people
>	set some goals for Assam govt's. 
>betterment . But  they were not. In fact it 
>became
>	abundantly clear from the arguments made 
>for their rejection, some so poorly contrived
>	that they verged on insults to the 
>intelligence of ordinary people. The real intent 
>could
>	have been best described as 'apwnar 
>naak-kati xotinir jatra bhongo korar proyax'
>	( smacking of  cutting off one's nose to spite one's face).
>
>	Are these valid nuances to consider?  I 
>will let the fair and balanced crowd decide that 
>:-).
>
>	B: Talk about cluelessness.
>
>	It is a DIFFERENT kind of clueless-ness 
>from the kind I characterized the arguments
>	and questions posed , eliciting the charge of  insulting netters.
>
>	Therefore if it is presented as a 
>retaliation in kind, it does NOT fly :-).
>
>	Also the verdict :
>
>	> am now convinced that it is the latter 
>because the vocal supporters with answers for
>	>everything else cannot answer these 
>questions either, nor do they know where to
>	> go for the answers
>
>	above is , at best, a self-serving 
>statement, to reiterate  one's own certitude. It 
>has no
>	connection what-so-ever to the issues 
>discussed or ideas presented. Hardly any
>	different in quality or substance from 
>JS's prescriptions to end the 'mohamari'  :-).
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 12:59 PM -0700 5/17/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
>
>>Content-Type: text/html
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>From my earlier email, "  If ULFA wants the 
>support of the rational people of Assam, let 
>ULFA state clearly in detail what its " modern, 
>truly democratic state with a rule of law" 
>is and How " the right to have full control over 
>its resources" will be utilized to 
>make everyone's life better in Assam."
>
>
>
>To the best of my knowledge, ULFA has not 
>published anything on the above subjects. Even 
>their website did not say anything about Assam's 
>future after Assam becomes a sovereign nation.
>
>
>
>Long before I got CM's advice in his last email 
>to contact ULFA directly, I had written twice 
> to the email address that ULFA used in the 
>past, asking the same questions. That probably 
>was two years ago. Needless to say, I never got 
>a response. So I assume either ULFA thinks I do 
>not deserve a response or ULFA does not have 
>answers to the questions.
>
>
>
>I am now convinced that it is the latter because 
>the vocal supporters with answers for everything 
>else cannot answer these questions either, nor 
>do they know where to go for the answers. Talk 
>about cluelessness.
>
>Dilip Deka
>
>===========================================================
>
>
>Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>  >DD: What you are forgetting is this - not 
>everyone in Assam agrees with ULFA --
>
>
>
>*** No I did not forget that. That is why I wrote:
>
>
>"There are those of us who are not handicapped 
>by such a mindset, will continue to speak up for 
>Assam's rights."
>
>
>
>And we shall.
>
>
>  >incessant insult of the clueless (in your words) 
>
>
>*** And I stand by the characterization, because 
>it was unequivocally demonstrated in the posts 
>concerned.
>
>
>Perhaps DD will tell us WHY they are NOT 
>'clueless'? That would PROVE the point.
>
>
>
>*** Just because a lot of people say something, 
>does not make it right. A bunch of fools saying 
>a bunch of foolish things do not automatically 
>become cleansed by the NUMBERS.
>
>
>
>
>  >If ULFA wants the support of the rational 
>people of Assam, let ULFA state >clearly in 
>detail what its " modern, truly democratic state 
>with a rule of law" >is and How " the right to 
>have full control over its resources" will 
>be >utilized to make everyone's life better in 
>Assam. 
>
>
>*** Those were MY words. If DD wants ULFA's 
>responses, he ought to address ULFA and ask them 
>that question. *I* ,Chandan Mahanta, do not 
>speak for ULFA. But I do have reasons to believe 
>that those are ideals ULFA does harbor.
>
>
>Now on a side note, if DD seeks such assurances 
>from ULFA, he might write to them. But an 
>ordinary observer could surmise that DD's 
>willingness to give ULFA that support,regardless 
>of ULFA's plans for Assam, in view of DD's 
>decades of expressions regarding ULFA, would be 
>suspect :-). Thus a serious response from ULFA 
>to his request may or may not be forthcoming is 
>how *I* would see it. But things do change.  If 
>were in DD's shoes, and did have a change of 
>heart, I might try it. Nothing to lose.
>
>
>*** But considering the responses to my posts on 
>reforming Assam governance  from those netters 
>who have been involved in trashing ULFA all 
>these years, amounting to nothing more than "WE 
>DON't WANT" such reforms, because Oxomiyas are 
>unable to deliver or they are no different from 
>what exists today or impractical due to possible 
>boundary disputes or other FEEBLE excuses, does 
>not
>
>make DD's claim here very believable.
>
>
>But *I* am always open for any chance of progress. So good luck!
>
>
>*** Finally, I ask DD too: WHY should those of 
>who have every confidence , not only on 
>ourselves, but on the people of Assam to be able 
>to deliver on a reformed system, as good as the 
>best in the world, advocate ULFA's surrender and 
>advise Assam to accept and be happy with what 
>has NOT worked for sixty plus years of Indian 
>misrule, as even MOST thoughtful Indian 
>commentators would readily agree ?
>
>
>cm
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 7:37 AM -0700 5/16/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
>
>>From below - " Just like you all, I too want 
>>the conflict to end. But not on YOUR ( by this 
>>I include all of you who have vented your 
>>clueless frustrations ) terms, a  surrender to 
>>Indian interests. I would like to see ULFA 
>>obtain for Assam the rights to re-form its 
>>governance to a modern, truly democratic state 
>>with a rule of law and the right to have full 
>>control over its resources." 
>>
>
>
>
>DD: What you are forgetting is this - not 
>everyone in Assam agrees with ULFA and its 
>violence for sovereignty, just like not everyone 
>in this net agrees with you and your incessant 
>insult of the clueless (in your words) . It is 
>wrong for ULFA to assume that ULFA is the voice 
>of Assam, just as it is wrong for you to assume 
>that anyone who does not agree with you is 
>clueless.
>
>
>
>
>If ULFA wants the support of the rational people 
>of Assam, let ULFA state clearly in detail what 
>its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule 
>of law" is and How " the right to have full 
>control over its resources" will be utilized to 
>make everyone's life better in Assam. 
>
>
>
>
>Everyone has his own idea of an ideal state. We 
>all would like to hear what the dreamers in 
>Dhaka have to say on the two subjects above. If 
>there is someone among the netters who is in the 
>know, he is welcome to step in and provide the 
>details.
>
>
>Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
>
>Good to hear from you Chitta.
>
>
>We ask QUESTIONS in a debate like this to prove 
>or disprove a point, or to help lead someone to 
>a find an answer or a solution.
>
>
>JS's post supposedly was about "End this disease called ULFA"
>
>
>Fine! He had two prescriptions:
>
>
>A: Wipe out ULFA militarily.
>
>B: Send ULFA sympathizers to prison.
>
>
>Do YOU , as a mature and informed adult, able to 
>reason; believe those recommendations would 
>bring about the results of his or your or Ram's 
>or all the others' ( who have chimed in with an 
>array of responses and posed questions of yours 
>truly) desires ?
>
>
>If not, what are your recommendations? What do 
>YOU bring to the table? How do you see it 
>resolved?
>
>
>
>All those questions you all pose at me, designed 
>to make ULFA look like a bunch of thugs and 
>rogues , not to mention traitors to your 
>Indian-ness defined by  a Hinduttwa inspired 
>animus towards Pakistan or even B'Desh , while 
>congratulating each other on your intellectual 
>marksmanship with the perception that you had me 
>on the ropes, mean:
>
>
>
>	* That you all are frustrated and at 
>wit's end on how to end the conflict.
>
>	* ULFA maybe all things you attempt to 
>portray them as, and even worse, but HOW
>
>		does that solve the problem?
>
>	* If you are trying to convince me or 
>Mukul Mahanta that ULFA is what YOU all portray
>
>		them as and convert us to your 
>side to badger ULFA or make them look bad in
>
>		the internet, it still would not solve the problem, would it?
>
>	* Taunting is something indulged in by 
>children and immature adults, when they are 
>unable
>
>		to get their way with an 
>adversary.  Do you think ULFA will keel over or 
>disappear
>
>		because of such taunting or from 
>the barrage of  insults that you all heap on 
>them?
>
>		It is an abject display of 
>clueless-ness, that's all. Don't you think it is 
>unseemly?
>
>
>Just like you all, I too want the conflict to 
>end. But not on YOUR ( by this I include all of 
>you who have vented your clueless frustrations ) 
>terms, a  surrender to Indian interests. I would 
>like to see ULFA obtain for Assam the rights to 
>re-form its governance to a modern, truly 
>democratic state with a rule of law and the 
>right to have full control over its resources.
>
>
>Those of you who are satisfied with your vision 
>of an Assam as an Indian colony to be exploited 
>by outsiders with a few in Assam sharing in the 
>loot, as things are today, that is your burden.
>
>
>There are those of us who are not handicapped by 
>such a mindset, will continue to speak up for 
>Assam's rights.
>
>
>Take care.
>
>
>m-da
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>At 2:45 AM -0700 5/16/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
>
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>>	id l4G9jkoD022073
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>
>Mahanta da Salute
>
>Jyatirmay posed some questions-:
>
>  >- Why do they reside in a foreign country, the 
>population of which is creating economic and 
>social disorder in our state?
>
>
>
>
>  >- Why don't they fight the Indian Army but 
>hide in their holes when confronted? Why do 
>human rights become a big issue when their 
>members are killed and not when innocents are 
>getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks 
>at public places?
>
>
>
>
>  >- Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people?
>
>
>
>
>  >- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA 
>members, what about all the people they have 
>killed. Are they going to give the reasons?
>
>
>
>
>You first did your patented qualitative analysis 
>of these questions to classify them as dumb, 
>dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many 
>people in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb 
>questions. While trying to work out intelligent 
>responses to these dumb questions, you came out 
>with not dumb; but some very disgusting 
>explanations. And in the process you:
>
>Justified ULFA’s extortion as a form of TAXATION
>
>Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE
>
>Defended the killing of children and civilians 
>as a modus operandi of the CONFLICT.
>
>
>
>
>Can we go back to your intelligent responses to 
>these dumb questions one by one?
>
>
>
>
>TAXATION
>
>Try explaining this taxation scheme to those 
>belonging to the samples I have given below. I 
>am just limiting to few-with little effort I can 
>post to you some copies of extortion notices 
>(sorry tax advices) also.
>
>
>1)      This guy from humble background from 
>Abhayapuri by grace of reservation/education in 
>an engineering college gets a job in Public 
>sector (OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets 
>married and commits his first mistake of family 
>life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a 
>brand new Maruti 800 (it was late eighties). The 
>happiness was short lived-the new car was 
>whisked away never to be seen again for 
>Xongothon activities. Served him right for being 
>materialistic!!
>
>2)      Try explaining this taxation to tea 
>tribes who have to resort to strike every year 
>for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as 
>Puja bonus where as their employers have to pay 
>millions of rupees to these outfits. By the way 
>as you can see-the polarization is complete now. 
>These guys will rip you apart if you talk of 
>independence and taxation. There is no 
>solidarity-leave alone on the ULFA front but 
>also on the army atrocities on innocent people 
>as long as people dying are from the other side 
>of the fence. 
>
>
>3)      Or to the GMC trained Assamese 
>government doctor posted in Diphu donating part 
>of his monthly salary to UPDS coffer.
>
>4)      Or to this Assamese teacher in NC Hills 
>(few of the last remaining breed-will be forced 
>to rush to plain as soon as Dimaraji is claimed) 
>who is visited by Hindi speaking DHD cadres 
>every month.
>
>5)      Or to those contractors who still dare 
>to do some theeka thukali in Bodoland.
>
>
>
>
>By the way is there any rare instance of this 
>taxed money being used for a purpose like 
>monetary help to those innocent people killed by 
>armed forces in the name of ULFA hunting? Do you 
>know of any instances?
>
>
>
>
>STRATEGIC ALLINACE
>
>Mahanta da –you gave a good justification why 
>some of the ULFA leaders are holed up in BDesh. 
>Strategic reason-good reasoning! Ram da 
>unnecessarily lambasted you on this. Can I ask 
>you a personal question?
>
>How far will you go on endorsing such spineless 
>strategic alliance where the voice of the 
>protagonist gets muffled by those pulling the 
>strings? And if tomorrow they take this 
>BDesh/ISI aided anti-India stance to extreme and 
>declare that they would like to see Assam as an 
>independent IRA (Islamic Republic of Assam) 
>asking a segment of squabbling people forgo 
>their religious independence for the sake of 
>national independence of Assam. Will you still 
>support them and endorse this as a “strategic 
>shift”. Or you have set some limit up to which 
>you will go on supporting ULFA’s strategic 
>alliance and then no further.
>
>No it is not a trap question for you. May be 
>your personal response will give us an 
>indication of importance the proponents place on 
>various binding identities on which they seek to 
>hold together the people in an independent 
>nation.
>
>On my part personally I would welcome such 
>declaration like IRA-it will at least remove 
>some ambiguity about what kind of nation ULFA 
>wants. Secular is no different from what we have 
>now. BDesh sheltered and ISI supported (no first 
>hand info-just what I read from newspaper) ULFA 
>can not afford to declare Assam as a Hindu 
>nation. And as it stands Islam is the most 
>widely practiced religion in Assam if you place 
>it against the fragmented composite Hinduism 
>practiced in Assam. From what I sense from your 
>posts, religion is not much of an issue for some 
>of the broad minded people. Can we do away with 
>this Assamese language bit also and adopt an 
>international language like Bengali or English?
>
>I will wait for your response on this.  
>
>
>
>
>CONFLICT
>
>Your explanation of violent CONFLICT was 
>amusing. 18 year old boy strapping bomb on 
>motorbike to kill himself (accidentally-no 
>official ULFA human bomb till now) and a sixty 
>year old is your idea of conflict. And who are 
>the victims of this VIOLENT CONFLICT?  The 
>children of Dhemaji and Tinsukiya Bihari!!. “We 
>dare not go near Indian army, so lets kill the 
>poor laborers” is that the logic of this violent 
>CONFLICT  ULFA is waging?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Lastly I will just touch two of your points
>
>
>
>
>***But, I have often said that if the ulfa or 
>some other group was really, really fighting for 
>a cause, and with all sincerity, I would be the 
>first one to at least give them the respect they 
>deserve (even if I do not agree with their 
>cause).
>
>
>
>
>
>Mahanta da-respect , agreement, disagreement pisor kotha.
>
>What is the cause-independent Assam? Have they 
>shown sincerity to the cause by removing the 
>abstractness around the geographical limit of 
>the entity they are fighting for? Have they 
>shown the sincerity to the cause by spelling out 
>how their independent Asom fits in with Bodoland 
>and Kamatapur of their teen patti mates of 
>Bhutan camps (KLO and NDFB)? Have they shown 
>their guts by saying any thing on issues like 
>Bangladeshi infiltration, balkanization of Assam 
>in the name of territorial councils, or 
>humiliation of Assamese national institution 
>like AXX in Brahmaputa valley itself? Or we 
>should believe that ULFA will spell out its 
>policies on all these after the independence is 
>gained. And till then we should give the respect 
>they deserve for the cause they are fighting??
>
>But given their martyrdom to surrender ratio, 
>what is the guarantee that those who are waging 
>this so called struggle will not make a perfect 
>Volta face tomorrow?
>
>
>
>
>
>*** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of 
>others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been 
>surviving all these decades. Obviously it is 
>from the support of those who you do not see or 
>prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus 
>your definition of ULFA's
>
>'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the 
>resolution of the conflict. IF you and others 
>are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then 
>the question would be WHAT are you contributing 
>to its resolution?
>
>Why Mahanta Da –can I ask? Just because Ram da 
>and his camp members are net savvy you feel they 
>would be far removed from ground realities of 
>Assam. If you half Ram da’s age-may be you will 
>have thousands who have access to net who are 
>based outside Assam but whose parents , 
>brothers, cousins are based in Assam. The guy 
>may be in Delhi but his brother may be a 
>sympathizer or victim of ULFA. JB college/JEC 
>trained, OIL mentored guy may be in Doha earning 
>in dollars (and reading assamnet post during 
>lunch breaks), but his parents in Sivsagar may 
>be paying the extortion amount (luxury tax as 
>you may like to say).
>
>Things have really changed. Cyber connectivity 
>does not mean loss of connectivity from Assam. 
>And for recent immigrants like us-ami jihetu 
>puliye pukhai utha di aha nai-what we think is 
>not necessarily what we see or surf but what our 
>friends and relatives and cousins are undergoing 
>in Assam.
>
>But things are different for people like you who 
>seem to be living in a time wrap. I don’t blame 
>you. You left Assam when Bihu ,Durga Puja and 
>Tithis were the only occasions celebrated in 
>Assam. By the time we left in late 
>nineties-Baisagu, Chilaria Divx, Me-dam-me-phi, 
>Ali-ai ligang were the in things.
>
>And now the latest-have you heard what they call -Besama?
>
>
>
>
>Reply dibo dei!!!!
>
>
>
>
>Regards
>
>
>
>
>Chittaranjan Pathak
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>
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