[Assam] Fwd: Re: Q and A

Dilip/Dil Deka dilipdeka at yahoo.com
Fri May 18 08:22:39 PDT 2007


O'Mahanta,
  If my email made you clueless about what the discussed cluelessness was about, let me restate the subject matter:
[ From my earlier email, "  If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of Assam, let ULFA state clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law" is and How " the right to have full control over its resources" will be utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam."]
   
  You reminded me that the quoted words were yours. But they are matters of common interest in Assam. Does ULFA have any clue and/or plan how independent Assam will be turned around and made to function better than the neighbors? Please note I am not talking about India alone as neighbor. If there is a plan, where is it and why is it not shared with the people in Assam? 
  It cannot be intuitively obvious, definitely not to me.
   
  O'Deka
  ============================================================
  

Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
        O'Deka:
  

  

  At 6:14 AM -0700 5/18/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
    I doubt that one can judge the Intent from an email.  


  *** I will go along with that. No one can or pretend to.
  

          But how about a series of them over time setting a tell-tale pattern ? Would that be
          reasonable to draw inferences from ? I realize that may not be admissible evidence
          in a criminal case. But for a civil discourse, would that be unreasonable or unreliable?
          Can someone draw a reasonable conclusion from my posts that *I* just might have
          sympathies for ULFA's cause ? Or for that matter DD might not ? Or that it will be
          preposterous to conclude that Ram would support an independent Assam, if only
          the people of Assam 'sincerely' struggled for its attainment :-)?
          

    How did you judge that I wanted to find fault or alibi to reject when I wrote to ULFA?  


  *** I did not. And I would not. Because I do believe that people CAN and DO change their beliefs. That is why I suggested that there is no harm in trying to get that feedback from ULFA.
  

  But on a matter of practicality, I would also say this: I too wrote to the VERY SAME ULFA publicity addresses years ago , one with the name of a Mahanta, and the other under the name of Ruby Bhuyan. If I remember correctly I did receive a very short, yes/no type of an answer on something I asked from the former, and none from the latter. I have to think that neither name is of a real person. And there is every possibility that  those e-mail addresses are blocked from receiving mail., if for nothing else, for security reasons.
  

  Call me paranoid, but I will have to think, that such e-mails ARE monitored by India. And I know for a fact that OUR discourses and debates in this forum are routinely monitored by INTERSTED parties , and trust me there is more than ONE party who ARE interested .
  

  

  

  >I stand behind my statement that ULFA is clueless.
  

  *** That is your gosh-given right and prerogative. Far be it for me than to question or dispute or otherwise infringe upon that right :-).
  

  

  >So is everyone else who discusses ULFA issues, mainly because ULFA is clueless.
  

  *** Now THIS, however, is something else . Let me see if I can understand this verdict:
  

          I don't question your judgement in concluding that ULFA is CLUELESS
  

          But clueless about WHAT?  You are not suggesting they are CLUELESS
          about EVERYTHING?  Are you ?
  

  If you are NOT suggesting that ULFA is clueless on everything under the sun, then how can your verdict above, that  "everyone else who discusses ULFA issues --- is clueless", hold any water?  You can't be serious about  such a conclusion. It was obviously a slip of the keyboard.
  

  

  What you must have been attempting to convey was that ULFA is clueless about some SPECIFIC MATTER. In this context that would be a plan for an independent Assam government.
  

  If so, how can you conclude that my characterization of clueless-ness of the arguments made by JS and his admirers on what to do about the MOHAMARI that JS  opened his salvoes on them despicable sympathizers with, is also clueless , because ULFA might be clueless about governance?
  

  What is the connection between the two? Or between it and the price of tea at Teok :-)? What is the train of logical examination here?
  

  

  

  *** But, I will gladly accept your verdict on my own cluessness, on any subject that you might wish to assign :-) ( see, those things don't hurt me, and being clueless , I might actually wear them as trophies )  if that would make you feel better or take the sting out of my characterization of the arguments made by people on the specific subject of  the  call to "End this disease called ULFA"  .
  

  

  O'm
  

          
          
  

  

  

  

  

  


    When I wrote the emails two years ago, it was a sincere attempt to get information. When there was total silence even after two attempts, it was very clear that it was a lost cause.  I stand behind my statement that ULFA is clueless. So is everyone else who discusses ULFA issues, mainly because ULFA is clueless. Haven't you noticed how every related topic discussed here turns into accusations of "clueless" and "uninformed" without any semblance of a proper discussion?  Your attempts to justify ULFA's existence and performance are meaningless because it is doubtful that you ( like the rest of us) know ULFA's master plan.  Dilip  ===============================================================  
Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
  >I am now convinced that it is the latter because the vocal supporters with answers for everything else >cannot answer these questions either, nor do they know where to go for the answers. Talk about >cluelessness.  
  
  *** Two points to note:  
          A: Intent of the questions asked  
          If the intent was to learn, with the idea of extending support, provided the answers          were satisfactory, that would be one thing. But if the questions were asked with the          hope of  finding fault  or even alibis to reject and to devalue, that would be another.  
          Few months ago, I spent a lot of time articulating  almost exactly these issues, albeit          from MY perspective, in my words, with the hope that the requests and challenges were          made with a sincerity of purpose, to engage in a constructive dialogue to help people          set some goals for Assam govt's. betterment . But  they were not. In fact it became          abundantly clear from the arguments made for their rejection, some so poorly contrived          that they verged on insults to the intelligence of ordinary people. The real intent could          have been best described as 'apwnar naak-kati xotinir jatra bhongo korar proyax'          ( smacking of  cutting off one's nose to spite one's face).                    Are these valid nuances to consider?  I will let the fair and balanced crowd decide that :-).  
          B: Talk about cluelessness.  
          It is a DIFFERENT kind of clueless-ness from the kind I characterized the arguments          and questions posed , eliciting the charge of  insulting netters.  
          Therefore if it is presented as a retaliation in kind, it does NOT fly :-).  
          Also the verdict :  
          > am now convinced that it is the latter because the vocal supporters with answers for          >everything else cannot answer these questions either, nor do they know where to          > go for the answers  
          above is , at best, a self-serving statement, to reiterate  one's own certitude. It has no          connection what-so-ever to the issues discussed or ideas presented. Hardly any          different in quality or substance from  JS's prescriptions to end the 'mohamari'  :-).  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  At 12:59 PM -0700 5/17/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
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      From my earlier email, "  If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of Assam, let ULFA state clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law" is and How " the right to have full control over its resources" will be utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam."
  
   To the best of my knowledge, ULFA has not published anything on the above subjects. Even their website did not say anything about Assam's future after Assam becomes a sovereign nation.
  
   Long before I got CM's advice in his last email to contact ULFA directly, I had written twice  to the email address that ULFA used in the past, asking the same questions. That probably was two years ago. Needless to say, I never got a response. So I assume either ULFA thinks I do not deserve a response or ULFA does not have answers to the questions.
  
   I am now convinced that it is the latter because the vocal supporters with answers for everything else cannot answer these questions either, nor do they know where to go for the answers. Talk about cluelessness.
  Dilip Deka
  ===========================================================
  
Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
  >DD: What you are forgetting is this - not everyone in Assam agrees with ULFA --
  
  
  *** No I did not forget that. That is why I wrote:
  
  "There are those of us who are not handicapped by such a mindset, will continue to speak up for Assam's rights."
  
  
  And we shall.
  
  >incessant insult of the clueless (in your words) 
  
  *** And I stand by the characterization, because it was unequivocally demonstrated in the posts concerned.  
  
  Perhaps DD will tell us WHY they are NOT 'clueless'? That would PROVE the point.
  
  
  *** Just because a lot of people say something, does not make it right. A bunch of fools saying a bunch of foolish things do not automatically become cleansed by the NUMBERS.
  
  
  
  >If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of Assam, let ULFA state >clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law" >is and How " the right to have full control over its resources" will be >utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam. 
  
  *** Those were MY words. If DD wants ULFA's responses, he ought to address ULFA and ask them that question. *I* ,Chandan Mahanta, do not speak for ULFA. But I do have reasons to believe that those are ideals ULFA does harbor.
  
  Now on a side note, if DD seeks such assurances from ULFA, he might write to them. But an ordinary observer could surmise that DD's willingness to give ULFA that support,regardless of ULFA's plans for Assam, in view of DD's decades of expressions regarding ULFA, would be suspect :-). Thus a serious response from ULFA to his request may or may not be forthcoming is how *I* would see it. But things do change.  If were in DD's shoes, and did have a change of heart, I might try it. Nothing to lose.
  
  *** But considering the responses to my posts on reforming Assam governance  from those netters who have been involved in trashing ULFA all these years, amounting to nothing more than "WE DON't WANT" such reforms, because Oxomiyas are unable to deliver or they are no different from what exists today or impractical due to possible boundary disputes or other FEEBLE excuses, does not
  make DD's claim here very believable.
  
  But *I* am always open for any chance of progress. So good luck!
  
  *** Finally, I ask DD too: WHY should those of who have every confidence , not only on ourselves, but on the people of Assam to be able to deliver on a reformed system, as good as the best in the world, advocate ULFA's surrender and advise Assam to accept and be happy with what has NOT worked for sixty plus years of Indian misrule, as even MOST thoughtful Indian  commentators would readily agree ?
  
  cm
  
  
  
  
  
  
  At 7:37 AM -0700 5/16/07, Dilip/Dil Deka wrote:
  From below - " Just like you all, I too want the conflict to end. But not on YOUR ( by this I include all of you who have vented your clueless frustrations ) terms, a  surrender to Indian interests. I would like to see ULFA obtain for Assam the rights to re-form its governance to a modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law and the right to have full control over its resources." 
          
 
  DD: What you are forgetting is this - not everyone in Assam agrees with ULFA and its violence for sovereignty, just like not everyone in this net agrees with you and your incessant insult of the clueless (in your words) . It is wrong for ULFA to assume that ULFA is the voice of Assam, just as it is wrong for you to assume that anyone who does not agree with you is clueless.
  
 
  If ULFA wants the support of the rational people of Assam, let ULFA state clearly in detail what its " modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law" is and How " the right to have full control over its resources" will be utilized to make everyone's life better in Assam. 
  
 
  Everyone has his own idea of an ideal state. We all would like to hear what the dreamers in Dhaka have to say on the two subjects above. If there is someone among the netters who is in the know, he is welcome to step in and provide the details.
  
Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at charter.net> wrote:
  Good to hear from you Chitta.
  
  We ask QUESTIONS in a debate like this to prove or disprove a point, or to help lead someone to a find an answer or a solution.
  
  JS's post supposedly was about "End this disease called ULFA"
  
  Fine! He had two prescriptions:
  
  A: Wipe out ULFA militarily.
  B: Send ULFA sympathizers to prison.
  
  Do YOU , as a mature and informed adult, able to reason; believe those recommendations would bring about the results of his or your or Ram's or all the others' ( who have chimed in with an array of responses and posed questions of yours truly) desires ?  
  
  If not, what are your recommendations? What do YOU bring to the table? How do you see it resolved?
  
  
  All those questions you all pose at me, designed to make ULFA look like a bunch of thugs and rogues , not to mention traitors to your Indian-ness defined by  a Hinduttwa inspired animus towards Pakistan or even B'Desh , while  congratulating each other on your intellectual marksmanship with the perception that you had me on the ropes, mean:
  
  
          * That you all are frustrated and at wit's end on how to end the conflict.
          * ULFA maybe all things you attempt to portray them as, and even worse, but HOW
                  does that solve the problem?
          * If you are trying to convince me or Mukul Mahanta that ULFA is what YOU all portray
                  them as and convert us to your side to badger ULFA or make them look bad in
                  the internet, it still would not solve the problem, would it?
          * Taunting is something indulged in by children and immature adults, when they are unable
                  to get their way with an adversary.  Do you think ULFA will keel over or disappear
                  because of such taunting or from the barrage of  insults that you all heap on them?
                  It is an abject display of clueless-ness, that's all. Don't you think it is unseemly?
  
  Just like you all, I too want the conflict to end. But not on YOUR ( by this I include all of you who have vented your clueless frustrations ) terms, a  surrender to Indian interests. I would like to see ULFA obtain for Assam the rights to re-form its governance to a modern, truly democratic state with a rule of law and the right to have full control over its resources.
  
  Those of you who are satisfied with your vision of an Assam as an Indian colony to be exploited by outsiders with a few in Assam sharing in the loot, as things are today, that is your burden.
  
  There are those of us who are not handicapped by such a mindset, will continue to speak up for Assam's rights.
  
  Take care.
  
  m-da
  
  
                  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  At 2:45 AM -0700 5/16/07, chittaranjan pathak wrote:
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  Mahanta da Salute
  Jyatirmay posed some questions-:
  >- Why do they reside in a foreign country, the population of which is creating economic and social disorder in our state?
  
 
  >- Why don't they fight the Indian Army but hide in their holes when confronted? Why do human rights become a big issue when their members are killed and not when innocents are getting maimed and killed by their bomb attacks at public places?
  
 
  >- Why do they plant bombs in public places and kill innocent people?
  
 
  >- They seek whereabouts of missing ULFA members, what about all the people they have killed. Are they going to give the reasons?
  
 
  You first did your patented qualitative analysis of these questions to classify them as dumb, dumber and dumbest. But let me assure you, many people in Assam are asking these seemingly dumb questions. While trying to work out intelligent responses to these dumb questions, you came out with not dumb; but some very disgusting explanations. And in the process you:
  Justified ULFA’s extortion as a form of TAXATION
  Endorsed the hobnobbing with ISI and BDesh Jehadis as a STRATEGIC ALLAINCE
  Defended the killing of children and civilians as a modus operandi of the CONFLICT.
  
 
  Can we go back to your intelligent responses to these dumb questions one by one?
  
 
  TAXATION
  Try explaining this taxation scheme to those belonging to the samples I have given below. I am just limiting to few-with little effort I can post to you some copies of extortion notices (sorry tax advices) also.
  
  1)      This guy from humble background from Abhayapuri by grace of reservation/education in an engineering college gets a job in Public sector (OIL-Duliajan). Settles down, gets married and commits his first mistake of family life-taking an easy PSU provided loan buys a brand new Maruti 800 (it was late eighties). The happiness was short lived-the new car was whisked away never to be seen again for Xongothon activities. Served him right for being materialistic!!  
  2)      Try explaining this taxation to tea tribes who have to resort to strike every year for timely payment of few thousands of rupees as Puja bonus where as their employers have to pay millions of rupees to these outfits. By the way as you can see-the polarization is complete now. These guys will rip you apart if you talk of independence and taxation. There is no solidarity-leave alone on the ULFA front but also on the army atrocities on innocent people as long as people dying are from the other side of the fence. 
  
  3)      Or to the GMC trained Assamese government doctor posted in Diphu donating part of his monthly salary to UPDS coffer.
  4)      Or to this Assamese teacher in NC Hills (few of the last remaining breed-will be forced to rush to plain as soon as Dimaraji is claimed) who is visited by Hindi speaking DHD cadres every month.
  5)      Or to those contractors who still dare to do some theeka thukali in Bodoland.
  
 
  By the way is there any rare instance of this taxed money being used for a purpose like monetary help to those innocent people killed by armed forces in the name of ULFA hunting? Do you know of any instances?
  
 
  STRATEGIC ALLINACE
  Mahanta da –you gave a good justification why some of the ULFA leaders are holed up in BDesh. Strategic reason-good reasoning! Ram da unnecessarily lambasted you on this. Can I ask you a personal question?
  How far will you go on endorsing such spineless strategic alliance where the voice of the protagonist gets muffled by those pulling the strings? And if tomorrow they take this BDesh/ISI aided anti-India stance to extreme and declare that they would like to see Assam as an independent IRA (Islamic Republic of Assam) asking a segment of squabbling people forgo their religious independence for the sake of national independence of Assam. Will you still support them and endorse this as a “strategic shift”. Or you have set some limit up to which you will go on supporting ULFA’s strategic alliance and then no further.
  No it is not a trap question for you. May be your personal response will give us an indication of importance the proponents place on various binding identities on which they seek to hold together the people in an independent nation.
  On my part personally I would welcome such declaration like IRA-it will at least remove some ambiguity about what kind of nation ULFA wants. Secular is no different from what we have now. BDesh sheltered and ISI supported (no first hand info-just what I read from newspaper) ULFA can not afford to declare Assam as a Hindu nation. And as it stands Islam is the most widely practiced religion in Assam if you place it against the fragmented composite Hinduism practiced in Assam. From what I sense from your posts, religion is not much of an issue for some of the broad minded people. Can we do away with this Assamese language bit also and adopt an international language like Bengali or English?
  I will wait for your response on this.  
  
 
  CONFLICT
  Your explanation of violent CONFLICT was amusing. 18 year old boy strapping bomb on motorbike to kill himself (accidentally-no official ULFA human bomb till now) and a sixty year old is your idea of conflict. And who are the victims of this VIOLENT CONFLICT?  The children of Dhemaji and Tinsukiya Bihari!!. “We dare not go near Indian army, so lets kill the poor laborers” is that the logic of this violent CONFLICT  ULFA is waging?
  
 
  
 
  Lastly I will just touch two of your points
  
 
  ***But, I have often said that if the ulfa or some other group was really, really fighting for a cause, and with all sincerity, I would be the first one to at least give them the respect they deserve (even if I do not agree with their cause).
  
  
 
  Mahanta da-respect , agreement, disagreement pisor kotha.
  What is the cause-independent Assam? Have they shown sincerity to the cause by removing the abstractness around the geographical limit of the entity they are fighting for? Have they shown the sincerity to the cause by spelling out how their independent Asom fits in with Bodoland and Kamatapur of their teen patti mates of Bhutan camps (KLO and NDFB)? Have they shown their guts by saying any thing on issues like Bangladeshi infiltration, balkanization of Assam in the name of territorial councils, or humiliation of Assamese national institution like AXX in Brahmaputa valley itself? Or we should believe that ULFA will spell out its policies on all these after the independence is gained. And till then we should give the respect they deserve for the cause they are fighting??  
  But given their martyrdom to surrender ratio, what is the guarantee that those who are waging this so called struggle will not make a perfect Volta face tomorrow?
  
  
 
  *** Surely YOUR support or for that matter of others in your camp is NOT what ULFA has been surviving all these decades. Obviously it is from the support of those who you do not see or prefer not to recognize when you see them. Thus your definition of ULFA's
  'sincerity' is quite irrelevant to the resolution of the conflict. IF you and others are SEEKING a resolution to the conflict, then the question would be WHAT are you contributing to its resolution?
  Why Mahanta Da –can I ask? Just because Ram da and his camp members are net savvy you feel they would be far removed from ground realities of Assam. If you half Ram da’s age-may be you will have thousands who have access to net who are based outside Assam but whose parents , brothers, cousins are based in Assam. The guy may be in Delhi but his brother may be a sympathizer or victim of ULFA. JB college/JEC trained, OIL mentored guy may be in Doha earning in dollars (and reading assamnet post during lunch breaks), but his parents in Sivsagar may be paying the extortion amount (luxury tax as you may like to say).
  Things have really changed. Cyber connectivity does not mean loss of connectivity from Assam. And for recent immigrants like us-ami jihetu puliye pukhai utha di aha nai-what we think is not necessarily what we see or surf but what our friends and relatives and cousins are undergoing in Assam.
  But things are different for people like you who seem to be living in a time wrap. I don’t blame you. You left Assam when Bihu ,Durga Puja and Tithis were the only occasions celebrated in Assam. By the time we left in late nineties-Baisagu, Chilaria Divx, Me-dam-me-phi, Ali-ai ligang were the in things.
  And now the latest-have you heard what they call -Besama?
  
 
  Reply dibo dei!!!!
  
 
  Regards
  
 
  Chittaranjan Pathak
  
 
  
 
  
 
  
 
    
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