[Assam] Violence There and Here

Chan Mahanta cmahanta at gmail.com
Wed Feb 24 09:26:39 PST 2010


Last things first:

 >There are many such examples in other countries. Rest assured we  
will never
 >see anything close to that in India.

*** WHY is that Ram? Can you explain? Perhaps that will lead you to  
what eludes you.











On Feb 24, 2010, at 11:21 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:

> C'da,
>
> So, C'da, do tell us what is so deep here. One can't really figure  
> out how
> the killing of children and innocent lives somehow helped the cause.  
> And
> these were NOT random in many cases - they were done with the clear,
> singular purpose of killing innocent people. Teach them a lesson,  
> perhaps?
>
> You will perhaps tell us how these things can actually be really  
> justified
> and understood - all we have to do is look deeper, and put ourselves  
> in
> their shoes?
>
> The ulfa has problems with the GOI/GOA and India. Fine. If they  
> happen to
> kill some military man, a minister or bureaucrat (representing the  
> Govt), I
> would feel bad & lousy, but I would try to UNDERSTAND their  
> viewpoint. If
> they blew up a government building and a symbol of India, I would  
> probably
> try and understand that too. If the ulfa wanted to fill their  
> coffers with
> money from business houses (to run their operations), I might even  
> try to
> understand that too.
>
> What galls me though is that over the last 30 years numerous  
> children, and
> innocent people of Assam who had absolutely no control or anything  
> to do
> with this conflict, have been killed or maimed.
>
> The questions are: Are the lives of these innocent people of any  
> value in
> the grand scheme of things? Are they somehow of less value than  
> those of
> their killers? How many families have been ruined because of this?
>
> One can well guess what will happen in the end - no one is going to  
> answer
> to or even pay for these crimes. There will be some kind of deal  
> struck
> between the GOI(GOA) and the insurgents.
>
> And in the name of 'going deep into the issues', and trying to really
> understand the whys and why-nots, all these killings will be non- 
> issues, and
> probably not even mentioned in any negotiation.
>
>
> On a side note:
> The Nuremberg trials primarily dealt with 'war crimes' as opposed to  
> 'waging
> a war'.
> The US, even today, prosecutes members of its own armed forces who  
> kill
> innocents at will. Recently a few marines were found guilty of war  
> crimes.
>
> There are many such examples in other countries. Rest assured we  
> will never
> see anything close to that in India.
>
>
> Ram
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 10:30 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>  
> wrote:
>
>> Ram:
>>
>> You have to learn to dig a bit deeper on about almost  everything   
>> that you
>> have been
>> passionately writing about. Your expressions, and a lot of others'  
>> in this
>> forum, have been ludicrously facile, shallow, simplistic. At times it
>> appears as though
>> you purposely refuse to dig  any deeper than what you find useful to
>> support your sense
>> of righteousness. Sorry about writing strong words, but comes a  
>> time when
>> one has to
>> stop beating around the bush and say it like it is.
>>
>> You are right, no one should have to resort to violence. It is  
>> uncivilized.
>> As Uttam says, it is anti-life. To acknowledge it is the easy part.  
>> It is a
>> perfect no-brainer.
>> And like all no-brainers, it leads to little if anything useful.
>>
>> But they did take to violence. And they continue to do. Can you or I
>> therefore not attempt to
>> understand why they do? Is it because they, those who take to  
>> violence, not
>> know that it  is harmful
>> for their health, to their near and dear ones, the ones they aim to  
>> help?
>> Are they all
>> 'soga' to the 'saaki' of violence, willing devotees prostrating  
>> themselves
>> in the temples of death?
>> If you think that is what it is, I am sure I can't point you to  
>> anything
>> worthwhile. It will also
>> tell the thoughtful that you are no different from the ideologues  
>> to whom
>> the means are the ends.
>>
>> And if you or I don't try to understand why violence takes place or  
>> erupted
>> and not contribute
>> something to addressing and eradicating those causes as an absolute
>> necessity towards
>> finding an end to it, then we are little more than a bunch of
>> simple-minded, self-serving
>> nit-wits, who care little more than asserting our self- 
>> righteousness to
>> anyone who cares to look.
>>
>> Think about it.
>>
>> c-da
>>
>>
>>
>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:49 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>
>> C'da,
>>>
>>> Its not 'you' per se, but its the whole damn thing. Today, when  
>>> one cites
>>> non-violence, it can be easily categorized as a 'mantra' or just  
>>> worn on
>>> the
>>> sleeve (not because you just said it, but that seems to be a  
>>> common take).
>>> Things are hardly taken at face value.
>>>
>>> Insurgents claim they are protecting the people, and YET more than  
>>> anyone
>>> else, it is the common person on the street that's getting blown  
>>> off. It
>>> is
>>> not the Indian military or the state police or the montri (the  
>>> targets of
>>> their wrath). It is the father who is going home from buying  
>>> groceries,
>>> the
>>> school girl going home, the lawyer, the newspaper vendor and the  
>>> typist at
>>> DC court, that pay the ultimate price.
>>> And yet the insurgents get support!
>>>
>>> The idea seems to be that they are making it damn difficult for the
>>> GOA/and
>>> in turn the GOI?
>>>
>>> Really! If the insurgents really believe that GOI/GOA don't care for
>>> Assam,
>>> why would they(the Govt) now bother with local lives lost?
>>>
>>> Then the other thing: In all this high-stakes game, the ULFA  
>>> leaders sit
>>> in
>>> jail (2 released), and they bargain with the GOI/GOA.
>>>
>>> But, shouldn't the "goals" of these insurgents be completely  
>>> separate of
>>> the
>>> crimes they committed? Should the innocent lives lost be just a side
>>> issue?
>>> Yes, if the GOI/GOA killed innocent people - those people should  
>>> also be
>>> brought to justice.
>>>
>>> My position (I'm sure a real minority one) is this: Whether it is  
>>> the GOI
>>> or
>>> the insurgents win, the people on either side who have committed  
>>> capital
>>> crimes should be brought to justice. No one should be given any VIP
>>> treatment.
>>> Criminals ought to be treated just like common criminals.
>>> Something is really wrong with a society that sees criminals & as  
>>> heroes,
>>> and puts them up on a pedestal
>>>
>>> --Ram
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 9:18 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Sorry if I got your dander up here Ram.
>>>>
>>>> But will you tell us WHAT I wrote is wrong or misdirected or  
>>>> inapplicable
>>>> or what you found offensive?
>>>>
>>>> c-da
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Feb 24, 2010, at 9:12 AM, Ram Sarangapani wrote:
>>>>
>>>> C'da,
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, this damn 'non-violence' mantra keeps cropping up  
>>>>> unnecessarily,
>>>>> doesn't it?
>>>>>
>>>>> And yet, one has to still look back think: Why would an insurgent
>>>>> organization think it so damn important to *THEIR* cause to kill
>>>>> innocent
>>>>> children and others? These insurgents swear up & down they are the
>>>>> 'protectors' of the people - and this is how they protect. And  
>>>>> it is not
>>>>> as
>>>>> if this was one of those things that just happened. What about the
>>>>> bombings
>>>>> in Guwahati's D.C court, and in Dispur, and in Banghagarh, etc.  
>>>>> Were the
>>>>> people killed in this regular fashion the 'enemies'?  What  
>>>>> purpose did
>>>>> these
>>>>> serve?
>>>>>
>>>>> The saddest part is, these insurgents will be accorded VIP  
>>>>> treatment,
>>>>> given
>>>>> phulam gamochas & japis, and hailed as heroes, instead of being  
>>>>> made to
>>>>> answer for crimes against their own people.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, non-violence, shaml-violence.. who the heck really cares  
>>>>> these
>>>>> days!
>>>>>
>>>>> India will never learn, nor will the GOA.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Ram
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Feb 24, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Chan Mahanta <cmahanta at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> You are treading on quicksand here Uttam.
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> "Non-violence" is a lovely mantra to chant, or wear on ones  
>>>>>> sleeves,
>>>>>> particularly when others are listening and watching.
>>>>>> Hardly a better way to look good. Sure beats most cosmetics and
>>>>>> personal
>>>>>> jewelry . Unfortunately it has many catches, or nuances if you  
>>>>>> prefer.
>>>>>> Many are ill equipped to discern them. Some can see them, but  
>>>>>> deftly
>>>>>> draw
>>>>>> attention away from them or are skilled enough to evade
>>>>>> them or bury them with words and phrases.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> One of those nuances, particularly appropriate in the case of  
>>>>>> Assam is
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> abundance of non-violence advocates that
>>>>>> appeared from the wood works once ULFA 's going started getting  
>>>>>> tough.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Another one is the ability or willingness and absence thereof in
>>>>>> realizing
>>>>>> that political violence does not appear like a bolt
>>>>>> from the blues. Never! It always has a period of incubation and  
>>>>>> then
>>>>>> becomes steadily more and overt. If  those who later discover
>>>>>> the virtues of non-violence, remain oblivious, apathetic,  
>>>>>> indifferent
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> even refuse to recognize the legitimacy of the winds of  
>>>>>> discontent
>>>>>> during this incubation, then their proclamations later can be  
>>>>>> little
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> than grand-standing, personal beauty-contest  
>>>>>> 'proxaadhon' ( make-up).
>>>>>> Particularly despicable are those who once egged the insurgents  
>>>>>> on,
>>>>>> only
>>>>>> to
>>>>>> find religion once they got bogged down in the fight.
>>>>>> But, like in everything else, there too are mitigating factors,  
>>>>>> namely
>>>>>> ignorance of the issues. Such ignorance, unfortunately is
>>>>>> what feeds the dysfunction of desi-demokrasy and keeps it going,
>>>>>> fueling
>>>>>> the longest running low-intensity warfares in the world
>>>>>> on the backs of our people.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> And there is even more. But enough for today.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Feb 23, 2010, at 8:50 PM, uttam borthakur wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In principle, can any violence be supported at all? It is anti- 
>>>>>> life.
>>>>>> Can
>>>>>>
>>>>>> we support drone attacks resulting in the death of Afghan  
>>>>>> civilians?
>>>>>>> We
>>>>>>> can
>>>>>>> only qualify our support to a warring group with the condition  
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> its
>>>>>>> action is directed against armed combatant of the opposite  
>>>>>>> group.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Uttam Kumar Borthakur
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Your Mail works best with the New Yahoo Optimized IE8. Get it  
>>>>>>> NOW!
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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